+- +-

+-User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 
Forgot your password?

+-Gallery

Shoutbox

combat32 says: Happy Fathers Day
combat32 says: Happy Easter
Brew Beerymore says: Happy Easter!  8)
combat32 says: Happy St Patricks day
combat32 says: Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays
combat32 says: Happy Labor Day
Brew Beerymore says: Cheers, 17'ers!
combat32 says: Happy 4th
combat32 says: Happy Memorial Day
Thank you to all our Veterans past, present and future ones.
17
combat32 says: Kentucky derby time

+-Top Posters

combat32
Posts: 4410
vic
Posts: 3672
DamoNinja
Posts: 2865
CorronZenith
Posts: 2766
Greedy Dragon Brewing
Posts: 2496

Author Topic: TO HYDRATE OR NOT  (Read 9460 times)

Tony_G

  • Superhero Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 1015
    • tony_g_1319
Re: TO HYDRATE OR NOT
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2014, 10:19:20 AM »
This whole topic might need to slide over into the brewing myths topic category. To be fair, the above study counted cells too so on and on it goes. Let's face it, it's not hard to make beer and kits are designed to that level. Follow the instructions and you'll get a drinkable product. For a lot of people (and I'm not one of them) that's good enough. For those who want to make the best possible brew then all the variables become fair game. You'll start looking at yeast strains, pitching rates, phase of the moon and all the rest. Some of these things will create noticeable differences and some will not but the important thing is to gain a greater understanding of the brewing process. After all, you can't control what you don't understand.

As far as yeast is concerned I think the first step that many people make towards a better brew is to throw away the kit yeast and use something better. Since all products vary your first step should be the manufacturers web site of info on how the product should be used for best results. Reading everything on the white Labs site for instance amounts to a short course in the subject. Learn the how and why of pitching rates and all the other things that affect your yeast and you'll be able to answer questions like this yourself in the context of what works best for you.

BREWMAGOO

  • Hero Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 519
Re: TO HYDRATE OR NOT
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2014, 10:38:28 AM »
You're so right Tony_G, this should have been started in "brewing myths"... So I will say in closing, I'll try the product I have, and pitch it dry....wait about 15-20 hrs and see what's what, if I have no action should I dump the batch or re-pitch another packet??? Sorry I've never had a none fermentation situation. Cheers 17

DeUltima

  • Master Brewer
  • Full Member

  • Offline
  • *****
  • Amateur Brew Geek

  • 234
  • Personal Text
    He was a wise man who invented beer.
    • Blitzkrieg Whores 18+
Re: TO HYDRATE OR NOT
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2014, 10:42:19 AM »
I wouldn't worry about it. Like I said, I pitched it dry for over a year with no problems. It will work and you will get better results than with Coopers yeast. If for some crazy reason it didn't start fermenting, no need to dump it, just pitch more yeast.
Primary 1: Centennial  IPA
Primary 2: Rookie Pale Ale
Keg 1: Empty :(
Keg 2: Empty :(

BREWMAGOO

  • Hero Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 519
Re: TO HYDRATE OR NOT
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2014, 11:00:07 AM »
Thank you!!! DeUltima, if the yeast turns to be dead from freezing...I'll make sure that the HBS hear me loud and clear, and take notice when their clientele drops off, and starts coming to me when I open shop!!! Cheers everyone!!!!!!

Greedy Dragon Brewing

  • Master Brewer
  • Superhero Member

  • Offline
  • *****
  • Why the heck is the glass empty kind of guy! CheerZ

  • 2496
  • Personal Text
    Greedy Dragon Brewing
Re: TO HYDRATE OR NOT
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2014, 12:17:02 PM »

I wouldn't worry about it. Like I said, I pitched it dry for over a year with no problems. It will work and you will get better results than with Coopers yeast. If for some crazy reason it didn't start fermenting, no need to dump it, just pitch more yeast.

I agree.  I wouldn't dump the batch. I would just pinch more yeast and see what happens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Come check me out at https://www.youtube.com/user/GreedyDragonBrewing
If you like what you see please like, share, and subscribe. CheerZ

Mainiac

  • Sr. Member

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 313
  • Personal Text
    Did you hear something?
Re: TO HYDRATE OR NOT
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2014, 12:26:11 PM »
Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer claim they base their conclusion on science and actual laboratory results where the yeast were put under a microscope and counted. The results are solid and repeatable, on average there is about 50% less "living" cells when pitched dry. Whereas when pitched rehydrated, the lab results showed  90% of the cells survived on average. I do however find the experiment you presented very interesting, but it maybe flawed in it's method.

I know this is an endless debate that we could argue forever, as there are strong armies in both camps. I can agree however; that pitching dry works, and can produce very good results. I'm only offering the best practices advice offered by what I consider to be two of the top experts in the field. Like I told him, the best thing he can do is experiment and let his own taste buds give him the answer.

I honestly think beginners should stick to sprinkling their yeast until they master the process, but personally I find rehydration and yeast starters make my beer taste that much better. Maybe it's all in my head, but I don't think it's a bad idea to give it a try for yourself.




Don't get me wrong I agree with you and their science.  What I am saying is you will not taste the difference.


i agree about the cells dying etc.


The laws of physics say the less your car weighs the better the milage.  So you whouild wear shorts and not pants to get beeter mpg.  The REAL WORLD you will never be able to measure the difference.




We are making beer and all that matters is; does it make the beer better or not 


I am saying it does not




dont believe me? test it






Greedy Dragon Brewing

  • Master Brewer
  • Superhero Member

  • Offline
  • *****
  • Why the heck is the glass empty kind of guy! CheerZ

  • 2496
  • Personal Text
    Greedy Dragon Brewing
Re: TO HYDRATE OR NOT
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2014, 12:44:05 PM »
This entire discussion had been very interesting and informative.  Thanks guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Come check me out at https://www.youtube.com/user/GreedyDragonBrewing
If you like what you see please like, share, and subscribe. CheerZ

Mark H

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 29
Re: TO HYDRATE OR NOT
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2014, 12:53:19 PM »
I use Safale S-04 or S-05, 90% of the time. I used to always rehydrate the yeast until one day when i was in a rush and tipped it into my wort dry. I could tell no difference in the end product, nor did it take any longer to ferment out.

I always just drop it in dry these days and have not had a problem yet.
Fermenting - Beaverdale Gewürztraminer, Hard Cider, AG APA
Conditioning - AG English Bitter (Fuggle/EKG)
Drinking - AG Magnum PA, AG Fullers London Porter Clone.

JIGSAW

  • Sr. Member

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 252
  • Personal Text
    BIAB Brewer
    • COMPUTEK
Re: TO HYDRATE OR NOT
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2014, 06:48:44 AM »
About the freezing of yeast .... I've always freezed mine since I started brewing 2½ yrs ago and never had a problem  :)

i just take it out the morning of brew-day to bring it up to room temp.  ;)
The Problem With The World Is That Everyone Is A Few Drinks Behind.!


BREWMAGOO

  • Hero Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 519
Re: TO HYDRATE OR NOT
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2014, 11:52:55 AM »
Thank you JIGSAW, just had me slightly concerned about the yeast being dead before it even has the chance to start, I'll post my brew and results later this week. Thanks to everyone for all their input. Was a very informative discussion. Cheers17!!!

arrogantbastardale

  • Master Brewer
  • Hero Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 608
    • My YouTube Channel
Re: TO HYDRATE OR NOT
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2014, 02:04:24 PM »
In 2011, BasicBrewing BYO Magazine did an experiment with homebrewers on this topic: http://traffic.libsyn.com/basicbrewing/bbr07-28-11hydration.mp3

BREWMAGOO

  • Hero Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 519
Re: TO HYDRATE OR NOT
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2014, 08:06:10 PM »
A very detailed and informative radio cast, they had all sorts of answers, love all the pros and cons. Benefits and disadvantages. Perfect!!!! Thanks for posting that link arrogantbastardale, Cheers 17

DeUltima

  • Master Brewer
  • Full Member

  • Offline
  • *****
  • Amateur Brew Geek

  • 234
  • Personal Text
    He was a wise man who invented beer.
    • Blitzkrieg Whores 18+
Re: TO HYDRATE OR NOT
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2014, 10:25:41 PM »
That was very informative, thanks AB! I knew it wasn't all in my head... The difference is slight, but I notice it as I make a lot of IPAs. I also agree that it's less noticeable in lower gravity beers.
Primary 1: Centennial  IPA
Primary 2: Rookie Pale Ale
Keg 1: Empty :(
Keg 2: Empty :(

BREWMAGOO

  • Hero Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 519
Re: TO HYDRATE OR NOT
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2014, 10:29:06 PM »
Funny how this forum turned my question from frozen into hydrate, I love how we all band together and tackle the issues. Cheers 17

Dullahan Brewing

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 11
Re: TO HYDRATE OR NOT
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2014, 02:10:35 AM »
Newbie brewer here, well joined here at start of 2013 and then kinda forgot about it,oops.


Anyway going to jump in here as this is something i have noticed that debates go on forever on here in Ireland as well. This will be from an Irish home brewers perspective(just this Irish homebrewer).


The single most important step is sanitation,then proper fermentation control, i think we can all agree on that ? Now as to the yeasties, i started off using the coopers kit yeasts but  switched to US-05 and S-04 and Notty and now use them almost exclusively, i just keep the kit yeasts in the fridge as backup. I tried rehydrating and pitching dry on all my 23litre kit and kilo brews and never noticed a difference between either method on any brew. To me  home brewing is about saving money of course but also brewing good beer, that said i have no need to bring my home brewing to a professional brewing level,therefore i wont add extra steps if the return is negligable.


I am no expert but from my experience if your sanitation and ferment temps are looked after the 11gr packs of yeast such as US-05 have not need to be rehydrated for a home brewer if its just for you and yours to sup.The one possible exception to this would be if you were entering your beer in a competition or such,where more developed palates will be judging your efforts.


The fact is for the "vast majority" of home brewers and beer drinkers in general our palates are not developed enough to detect the subtle nuances achieved between pitching dry or rehydrating yeast. My conclusion "why bother", its an extra step where things could go wrong if you are not careful, why add a step when there is no need to ? ;D

 

Recent Topics

Is this really an APA? [VIDEO] by DrHans
Today at 01:35:16 PM

I got some hops, need help with recipe by DrHans
Today at 01:34:37 PM

Pumpkin 2019 bottle day FG reading by Hplovecraft07
October 14, 2019, 11:10:09 AM

Pumpkin 2019 brew day by Hplovecraft07
October 14, 2019, 11:08:46 AM

Bottle day by Hplovecraft07
October 14, 2019, 11:07:01 AM

I brewed a Munich Dunkel! by DrHans
October 08, 2019, 12:20:05 PM

What did you just pour? New Thread by Siambrew
October 06, 2019, 04:38:34 AM

How to store homegrown hops! by DrHans
October 05, 2019, 10:29:55 AM

Why and How to Passivate Stainless Steel Fermenters and Equipment [VIDEO] by DrHans
September 29, 2019, 11:57:09 PM

Dry Irish Stout - Guinness clone by combat32
September 27, 2019, 08:58:35 PM

Finally! I can start interacting with you folk. My first Cider. by johnnyingeorgia
September 24, 2019, 05:46:27 PM

Bitter as f@#k! by TowelBoy2013
September 15, 2019, 12:53:43 AM

Maintaining Fermentation temperature at 68 degrees F? by TowelBoy2013
September 08, 2019, 01:16:05 AM

What's everyone brewing?? by ryan88dozer
September 02, 2019, 12:19:48 PM

I brewed with 15months old yeast [VIDEO] by DrHans
September 01, 2019, 05:46:46 AM

Piney Flavor IPA?? by combat32
August 31, 2019, 06:59:21 PM

Bourbon barrel oak chips by Black Dog Brewery
August 26, 2019, 09:26:39 PM

Been a while... How about alcoholic Vanilla Creme Soda by Jaymcmlxx
August 26, 2019, 08:54:49 PM

I tried to filter beer for the first time [VIDEO] by DrHans
August 25, 2019, 02:48:27 AM

4th Hop growing update [VIDEO] by DrHans
August 25, 2019, 02:44:27 AM

Brand new brewer! Thanks for having me! by Jaymcmlxx
August 23, 2019, 09:30:51 PM

WLP820 slow going by combat32
August 23, 2019, 02:23:02 PM

Vermont yeast. by combat32
August 19, 2019, 07:49:42 PM

Thirsty Thursday part 1: PirateLife IPA. Ink-Bird and 'What the Hell Is That @ 5 by TowelBoy2013
August 15, 2019, 02:33:59 AM

Hello from Australia by combat32
August 14, 2019, 07:50:18 PM

When to make a mead into a melomel? by combat32
August 04, 2019, 09:28:29 AM

+36% acid malt experiment sour IPA by DrHans
August 04, 2019, 06:10:22 AM

US-05 @ 59°F/15°C by combat32
August 03, 2019, 09:08:18 AM

HBW Seventeeeeen! by TowelBoy2013
July 31, 2019, 02:46:00 AM

4 reasons on why to prune your hops in the spring! by maxmon
July 24, 2019, 08:01:55 AM

Is homebrewing worth it [BLOG POST] by combat32
July 23, 2019, 08:34:40 AM

HBW XVI by TowelBoy2013
July 21, 2019, 04:49:42 AM

Hello everyone by dangquan09
July 20, 2019, 09:50:48 PM

Smoked Porter Yeast Stall by Zodiass
July 18, 2019, 04:41:38 AM

Adding fruits to secondary fermentation by Zodiass
July 18, 2019, 04:39:31 AM

I did a Mash pH experiment video by DrHans
July 13, 2019, 11:48:15 AM

New to here and hello everyone! by DrHans
July 13, 2019, 11:47:33 AM

Wort didn't ferment that long by DrHans
July 13, 2019, 11:47:15 AM

Fermentasaurus by DrHans
July 07, 2019, 08:12:43 AM

Just finished my first beer ebook, get it for free! by DrHans
July 07, 2019, 08:11:51 AM

Watermelon blond by Black Dog Brewery
July 02, 2019, 07:13:54 PM

Live Beer review Zombie Dust Clone by DrHans
July 01, 2019, 12:09:39 PM

2nd attemt at Mobile Live stremin a beer review in aout 20min from now! by DrHans
June 28, 2019, 01:11:09 PM

How about building a small kegerator with the part I got on the mail! by DrHans
June 26, 2019, 01:12:38 PM

Check out the roots on my hydropnic hops! by DrHans
June 23, 2019, 11:59:45 AM

My YouTube channel about brewing is about to hit 6K on my birthday tomorrow! by DrHans
June 17, 2019, 11:36:23 AM

This accident taught me how to dry hop under pressure safe :D by DrHans
June 14, 2019, 03:09:13 PM

Question for Mac: How do Nano Breweries fly sparge by susan063
June 13, 2019, 05:35:55 AM

Hello by combat32
June 12, 2019, 07:15:23 PM

BIAB 15 Gal Pot Advice by combat32
June 11, 2019, 09:10:27 PM

Dubbel IPA homebrew review and recipe! by DrHans
June 11, 2019, 02:20:33 PM

Stc 1000 probe by Black Dog Brewery
June 10, 2019, 07:22:14 PM

Petition to Legalize Home Distillation in US by combat32
June 02, 2019, 09:44:07 AM

Update video nr3 in my hop growing mini series by DrHans
May 31, 2019, 03:09:50 PM

Counter pressure bottle filler by combat32
May 29, 2019, 07:44:59 PM

Powered by EzPortal