+- +-

+-User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 
Forgot your password?

+-Gallery

Shoutbox

combat32 says: Happy Labor Day
Brew Beerymore says: Cheers, 17'ers!
combat32 says: Happy 4th
combat32 says: Happy Memorial Day
Thank you to all our Veterans past, present and future ones.
17
combat32 says: Kentucky derby time
says: Try again lol,   ???Is this the bathroom?
says: ??? Is the the bathroom?
combat32 says: ehh freakin snow I hate it bring on summer
newf84 says: Cheers everyone!!
combat32 says: I like it!!  Just Brew It!

+-Top Posters

combat32
Posts: 4176
vic
Posts: 3672
DamoNinja
Posts: 2865
CorronZenith
Posts: 2766
Greedy Dragon Brewing
Posts: 2496

Author Topic: 5 & 7  (Read 9998 times)

CraigTube

  • Technical brewer
  • Hero Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 518
5 & 7
« on: October 23, 2015, 04:56:35 AM »
Hi guys. I get asked a lot about what I call "The 5 & 7". This topic won't apply to all-grain or partial extract brewing, but there are still a lot people out there who brew the pre-hopped kits and are wanting to step up from "Kit & Kilo". This is for them.

This is a very detailed explanation of the "5 & 7" and why I came up with it.

The easiest way to start moving away from adding so much dextrose to your beer is to start using more malt. Often, the easiest way to do this is to just substitute some or all of the dextrose with Dry Malt, which is a powdered form of the gooey stuff in the can. This will give your beer more body and flavor. Sometimes a combination of Dry Malt and Dextrose is a good idea. It saves a bit of money (dry malt is a bit expensive) and it won't drastically change the style or colour of your beer.

The reason for trying to reduce the amount of Dextrose in your beer is because Dextrose will increase the ABV, but it won't add any supporting proteins or body to the beer. The more alcohol in your beer, the thinner it will be and it won't hold up any foam or have much of a mouth feel.

Coopers has what they call their "Brew Enhancers". One of these is sort of a balance between Dextrose and Dry Malt. Here's what's in it: 500g Dextrose, 250g Dry Malt, 250g Maltodextrin.

Maltodextrin is used to improve head retention and mouth-feel, but it does not ferment into alcohol.

If you wanted to save money, you could make your own Brew Enhancer. I think Coopers charges around $8 where I live, and here's the thing... It doesn't have as much fermentability as 1Kilo of dextrose. So when you replace your Kilo of Dextrose with this Brew Enhancer, your ABV is going to drop at least one percent. Bummer. Here's why...

It has 500g of Dextrose... all good there. 250g of Dry Malt, which is about the same as 200g of Dextrose as far as fermentability. 250g of Maltodextrin, which has little to no fermentability. Therefore, Brew Enhancer with these ingredients only offers 70% of the fermentability of 1Kilo of Dextrose. Your beer will taste fine, but you'll notice a drop in your "buzz".

So, here's what I thought... Let's increase the Dry Malt from 250g to 500g. That will eliminate the need for the Maltodextrin because Dry Malt adds the same body, plus it ferments. So, we're half way there. Let's make up the other half of this "Enhancer" by adding the same 500g of Dextrose that Coopers did. Now, we have 1Kilo "Brew Enhancer". But wait... That still doesn't add up to the same fermentability as 1Kilo of Dextrose because Dry malt only has about 80% fermentability compared with Dextrose. Well then we'll just add another 200g of Dextrose to make up for that. Now we have 500g of Dry Malt and 700g of Dextrose. The "5 & 7".

Both Dry Malt and Dextrose can be bought in bulk for pretty cheap, and they keep in sealed containers for years. Now, here's how you add them to your kit.

You will need to give them a quick boil to sanitize them, because they were in bulk. Bring about 4 liters of water to the boil (that's about 1 Gallon for you Americans). Then add your Dry Malt FIRST. Stir until all the lumps are gone, then (and only then) add your Dextrose. The reason is that Dry malt is hard to dissolve, and if the Dextrose is added first, you'll end up with Rock Candy. Once these are both nicely dissolved and brought to a boil for 5 minutes or so, just strike them in with your pre-hopped kit, and finish up the way you normally do. Brew to 20L by the way. Your beer will taste just that little bit better.

Use "Light" Dry Malt for this, unless you want to darken your beer. If you're brewing a stout, well, I've never done the 5 & 7 with a stout, but see what it says on the can and derive your 5 & 7 from that. They may say to add darker Dry Malt. You could do 250g Light and 250g Dark.

But anyway, that's the "5 & 7" and the reason for its inception. Any time anyone asks, you can link them to this thread. Hope this helps!

Cheers
Craig
« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 10:21:36 AM by CraigTube »

eggy79

  • Hero Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 567
Re: 5 & 7
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2015, 05:01:51 AM »
Great explanation Craig.

Given it is a regular question from brewers perhaps the mods could make this a sticky...
Garde Zythum

Brew Beerymore

  • Superhero Member

  • Offline
  • *****
  • Technician's Brewery

  • 1467
    • My youtube channel
Re: 5 & 7
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2015, 05:37:38 AM »
Great explanation Craig.

Given it is a regular question from brewers perhaps the mods could make this a sticky...


Good call. Stickied ;)
Quote of BB:    I think I've passed that point where I'm no longer under the influence of alcohol. The alcohol is actually under my influence..

FV 1: USB Porter OG: 1.090
FV 2: Network Porter OG: 1.040

Tap 1: Solid IPA 7% ABV
Tap 2: BB's Ginger Brew 6,5
Keg 3 & 4: Clean Slate Saison 17

CorronZenith

  • Technical brewer
  • Superhero Member

  • Offline
  • *****
  • "Easy As!"

  • 2766
  • Personal Text
    "Making awesome beer... It's Easy As!!"
    • CorronZenith YouTube Channel:
Re: 5 & 7
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2015, 09:13:11 AM »
Sweet! Good call Craig - more malt the better!

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


SmokeyMcB

  • Full Member

  • Offline
  • ***
  • The Cooker of the Foods

  • 211
  • Personal Text
    Wild Boloney Brewing
Re: 5 & 7
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2015, 04:55:06 PM »
Bring about 4 liters of water to the boil (that's about 0.5 Gallons for you Americans).


Not to be nit-picky but 4l is just over 1 us gallon...
I'se da B'ye!!

I may not be as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was!!

CraigTube

  • Technical brewer
  • Hero Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 518
Re: 5 & 7
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2015, 10:35:27 AM »
Good reason why we should all use the same measurements. :)


Homebrew and Forager

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 3
Re: 5 & 7
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2015, 04:30:35 AM »
Thanks for pointing me in the direction of this Craig, great explanation  ;)  Can I ask the guys in the uk, where do you get your dry malt from online and is there any good brands to get and bad ones to avoid.  There no home brew shops near me that stock dry malt so I'm forced to buy online. Thank you.

JIGSAW

  • Sr. Member

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 252
  • Personal Text
    BIAB Brewer
    • COMPUTEK
Re: 5 & 7
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2015, 09:24:26 AM »
Bring about 4 liters of water to the boil (that's about 0.5 Gallons for you Americans).


Not to be nit-picky but 4l is just over 1 us gallon...

Good reason why we should all use the same measurements. :)

I would suggest that the OP be corrected ... not everyone is gonna read the commends  ;)
The Problem With The World Is That Everyone Is A Few Drinks Behind.!


CraigTube

  • Technical brewer
  • Hero Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 518
Re: 5 & 7
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2015, 10:31:11 AM »
Bring about 4 liters of water to the boil (that's about 0.5 Gallons for you Americans).


Not to be nit-picky but 4l is just over 1 us gallon...


Corrected. Thanks. It's hard working in gallons because one U.S. Gallon is 0.83 Imperial Gallons. This is true with other measurements to, like Tabespoons and Cups. A 5 U.S. Gallon batch of beer is a 4.16 Gallon batch everywhere else. That makes beer recipes hard to fallow. You have to know where the recipe was made. I guess that's why us brewers, including myself, should talk metric whenever possible. Temperature is one thing I will always measure in F in stead of C, because F is more precise.


Cheers!
Craig

Sig brew

  • Full Member

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 134
Re: 5 & 7
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2015, 09:55:25 PM »
Great explanation Craig.

Given it is a regular question from brewers perhaps the mods could make this a sticky...


the 5 and 7 is great to use for pre hopped extracts


Sammy

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 1
Re: 5 & 7
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2015, 06:02:31 PM »
Quote
Can I ask the guys in the uk, where do you get your dry malt from online

I don't get mine online but from Wilkinsons, they do a dextrose with Dry Malt (50/50)
for about £6

hope this helps

SGDrummer23

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 10
    • Whitewater Pass
Re: 5 & 7
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2015, 03:07:51 PM »
Thanks for the explanation, Craig!

dripstick

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 9
Re: 5 & 7
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2015, 03:18:28 PM »
I always use Craig's 5 & 7 method with no complaints.

Cheers

strat

  • Superhero Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 1086
    • https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5rdR-gd5x4NAVLxnFyxCw/feed
Re: 5 & 7
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2015, 03:46:21 PM »
When I make a coopers kit I like the 5 and 7 with a few more added hops  Cheers

OleBno2000

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 2
Re: 5 & 7
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2015, 05:08:24 PM »
Hi Craig

Thank you a lot for the explanation of this.  I will try it out on my next batch of Coopers  ;D

Best Regards
OleB


 

Recent Topics

My best BIPA recipe and reviewing a beer mail BIPA by combat32
Today at 07:41:22 AM

Computer problems!!! by DavidWhorton
September 20, 2018, 03:40:23 PM

Brewed a lager with 40% rice [VIDEO] by combat32
September 17, 2018, 07:39:12 AM

Happy Home Brew Wednesday 2-21-18 by combat32
September 15, 2018, 06:16:03 PM

What did you just pour? New Thread by combat32
September 15, 2018, 05:19:46 PM

Newbie at wine, have questions on fermenter size. by combat32
September 14, 2018, 10:08:02 AM

Harley Brew Drooling Dog IPA rev5 by combat32
September 12, 2018, 07:44:26 AM

Windsor yeast finished after one day? by BDRJ
September 10, 2018, 01:27:07 PM

Stout taste challenge! by Hplovecraft07
September 10, 2018, 12:25:26 PM

What's everyone brewing?? by combat32
September 07, 2018, 07:53:29 PM

Temp Controller Suggestion by jcordero7713
September 07, 2018, 05:28:44 PM

Pale Malt, cascade, amarillo and simcoe by Hobrr
September 03, 2018, 03:46:36 PM

What are some good kits? by Jaymcmlxx
September 02, 2018, 08:48:23 PM

Fridge for kegs by James2851
September 01, 2018, 10:28:45 PM

Craig by Jaymcmlxx
September 01, 2018, 06:39:26 PM

Let's see your hop plants!! by combat32
September 01, 2018, 06:13:25 PM

What happens if you ferment a beer at 42C (107,6F) [VIDEO] by DrHans
August 31, 2018, 12:15:08 PM

Coconut NEIPA [VIDEO] by DrHans
August 31, 2018, 12:14:22 PM

We got hop cones! by DrHans
August 27, 2018, 01:07:30 PM

Next brew Idea by M0nk3y
August 26, 2018, 12:27:53 PM

apple juice clear when sunshine hits it by beerinplace
August 24, 2018, 03:32:18 PM

"Real" Breakfast Stout - Grain to glass [VIDEO] by DrHans
August 24, 2018, 01:41:08 AM

IBU's and pre-hopped kits by Vin5 WV
August 23, 2018, 04:51:50 PM

Larger Mini Fridge by RadioAstronomyObserver
August 22, 2018, 07:41:09 PM

First Brew Help by DrHans
August 22, 2018, 02:37:50 PM

Pellets Vs Whole by jimmyjusa
August 22, 2018, 12:34:29 AM

The BIPA that turned into a Stout [VIDEO] by DrHans
August 21, 2018, 02:37:08 PM

Plaato airlock unboxing [VIDEO] by DrHans
August 17, 2018, 01:22:17 AM

Brewing a Lager in under 3 days [VIDEO] by DrHans
August 15, 2018, 01:21:19 AM

Corn sugar by combat32
August 14, 2018, 07:42:41 AM

Gear review Mini CO2 Gas Regulator [VIDEO] by DrHans
August 13, 2018, 11:30:27 AM

Adding grains to in prove a extract kit by Jaymcmlxx
August 12, 2018, 07:13:34 AM

Brewed my pumpkin this weekend by combat32
August 09, 2018, 07:45:50 AM

Beer mail from Combat32, Christmas Ale by combat32
August 08, 2018, 07:41:42 AM

Question for Mac: How do Nano Breweries fly sparge by Macdonald
August 06, 2018, 07:07:13 PM

Well here they are by Macdonald
August 06, 2018, 07:03:45 PM

Bottle day by MichaelSingleton
July 28, 2018, 03:07:55 PM

Beer Keg by vic
July 25, 2018, 05:14:25 AM

Stout taste test by Hplovecraft07
July 21, 2018, 01:27:38 PM

Hop Rhizomes and plants by combat32
July 19, 2018, 11:40:50 AM

Lost another LHBS by Black Dog Brewery
July 18, 2018, 06:48:26 PM

17 Cream Ale - all grain by Brew Beerymore
July 14, 2018, 05:35:16 AM

Proper way to plant multiple hop Rhizomes by Black Dog Brewery
July 12, 2018, 10:33:49 PM

Bottle conditioning problem by Brew Beerymore
July 09, 2018, 02:51:24 PM

I start working at my LHBS by Brew Beerymore
July 09, 2018, 08:02:41 AM

Mashing/Boiling Question by combat32
July 08, 2018, 09:09:58 AM

Courgette/zucchini wine.....? by combat32
July 07, 2018, 08:05:23 PM

Brewing with Breakfast Cereal? by DrHans
July 01, 2018, 12:28:30 PM

Update on my hops! [VIDEO] by DrHans
June 29, 2018, 11:48:12 AM

Welcome by combat32
June 28, 2018, 08:42:31 AM

Flaked Rice by combat32
June 28, 2018, 08:35:14 AM

My Best Way to Pasteurize Fruit for Brewing! by DrHans
June 26, 2018, 11:32:17 AM

Howdy from a New York Red Neck by Brew Beerymore
June 24, 2018, 09:55:54 AM

Beer Head by combat32
June 23, 2018, 09:10:26 PM

Brewing!!! by Hplovecraft07
June 20, 2018, 11:02:27 AM

Powered by EzPortal