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Author Topic: Vinegary Taste  (Read 2485 times)

Uberstout007

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Vinegary Taste
« on: May 04, 2016, 06:40:47 PM »
Hi, I just wonder if bottling from a secondary fermenter will impart a vinegary taste to beer. You see, there was mucho oxygen unintentionally introduced to the beer as I transferred to the bottles with the gravity pump. Also, I topped off the wort before hand with tap water, and forgot to sanitize the sink nozzle with StarSan. The beer is slightly vinegary, but drinkable. Is there a way to stop the gravity pump after each bottle is filled? This cause much spillage and oxygen to occur. I know it is imperitave to not have oxygen during transfer. :o Any advice would be appreciated.  ;D

Rayner585

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Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2016, 07:06:00 PM »
was it all grain/extract? what beer?  what temp did you ferment at? because too high of a fermenting temp an cause problems like that ie solvent like smell? sure its not like an apple cider taste to it? this can be caused buy to much sugar etc, check this link out on acetaidehyde

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/is-my-beer-ruined/common-off-flavors

hope this helps cheers 17
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 07:08:23 PM by Rayner585 »

combat32

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Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2016, 07:15:30 PM »
do you have a bottling wand?
https://www.morebeer.com/products/bottle-filler-removable-spring-38.html?site_id=9

that would help you out with starting and stopping. you could also make a bottling bucket  very easily.
Keg 1- HB Pale ale 3
Keg 2-
Keg 3- Sour Cherry Gose
Keg 4- Lager #3
Keg 5- Mosaic lager
Keg 6- Dead Ringer IPA
Keg 7-
FV1- GaardenHoe
FV2-
Planning-

DamoNinja

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Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2016, 07:38:45 PM »
Is it a very very young stout?
Fermenting:
17 BIPA

Bottle aging:
Oaked sour ale '16
Coffee stout '15
Oaked apple cider '15
Barleywine '14

Keg 1: Golden ale
Keg 2: Not-17 BIPA
Keg 3: Not-17 BIPA
Keg 4: Mongrel //
Keg 5: EMPTY :(

Mini keg 1: Golden ale
Mini keg 2: Empty!
Mini keg 3: Damo's BIPA

Pipeline: ??

arrogantbastardale

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Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2016, 10:13:08 PM »
Not that it helps you, but vinegary (if that is what it is) is a sure sign of contamination, which could have easily happened from lots of air exposure during your transfer.  Generally, two organisms will do this, and both require oxygen in order to do it: Brettanomyces and Acetobacter.  The chances of catching a wild Brettanomyces from the air are pretty small.  It will convert sugar to acetic acid if it is allowed to ferment in the presence of oxygen.  In this case you would have seen more attenuation (higher carbonation) in the bottles.  Acetobacter, the more likely culprit, is a bacteria, and it's present everyone.  Leave a fermenter bucket uncovered over night, and the vinegar smell you get is from Acetobacter bacteria.  It's what is used to produce vinegar.  Acetobacter converts alcohol into acetic acid, and requires oxygen in order to do so. 

So... there's your useless microbiology explanation for the day, lol!

DamoNinja

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Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2016, 11:35:29 PM »
Acetobacter converts alcohol into acetic acid, and requires oxygen in order to do so. 

So... there's your useless microbiology explanation for the day, lol!

It'll do it without oxygen too, but takes considerably longer and generally needs oxygen to get going.

Made vinegar a few times, takes a while but it's worth it!
Fermenting:
17 BIPA

Bottle aging:
Oaked sour ale '16
Coffee stout '15
Oaked apple cider '15
Barleywine '14

Keg 1: Golden ale
Keg 2: Not-17 BIPA
Keg 3: Not-17 BIPA
Keg 4: Mongrel //
Keg 5: EMPTY :(

Mini keg 1: Golden ale
Mini keg 2: Empty!
Mini keg 3: Damo's BIPA

Pipeline: ??

arrogantbastardale

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Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2016, 01:40:05 AM »
Acetobacter converts alcohol into acetic acid, and requires oxygen in order to do so. 

So... there's your useless microbiology explanation for the day, lol!

It'll do it without oxygen too, but takes considerably longer and generally needs oxygen to get going.

Made vinegar a few times, takes a while but it's worth it!

Ah, I didn't know that.  Acetobacter is on my list of subjects to study more closely! :)

DamoNinja

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Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2016, 08:42:34 AM »
Acetobacter converts alcohol into acetic acid, and requires oxygen in order to do so. 

So... there's your useless microbiology explanation for the day, lol!

It'll do it without oxygen too, but takes considerably longer and generally needs oxygen to get going.

Made vinegar a few times, takes a while but it's worth it!

Ah, I didn't know that.  Acetobacter is on my list of subjects to study more closely! :)

I may very well be wrong and it just takes a long time :P

Apple cider vinegar is a pretty easy way to get good cultures of these guys going but it does take a while. I've still got 2 bottles of vinegar left I'm planning on taking the culture from it and doing a bigger batch.

Although I've never tasted it in a beer so maybe I should introduce some to some finished beer and see what it does... few samples with and without oxygen. Hmm...
Fermenting:
17 BIPA

Bottle aging:
Oaked sour ale '16
Coffee stout '15
Oaked apple cider '15
Barleywine '14

Keg 1: Golden ale
Keg 2: Not-17 BIPA
Keg 3: Not-17 BIPA
Keg 4: Mongrel //
Keg 5: EMPTY :(

Mini keg 1: Golden ale
Mini keg 2: Empty!
Mini keg 3: Damo's BIPA

Pipeline: ??

Uberstout007

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Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2016, 11:53:48 AM »
Thanks Rayner585!

It is a Brewer's Best Cream Ale extract kit, fermented at 24 degrees celsius, I think, maybe higher, thanks to a heating belt.

Uberstout007

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Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2016, 12:08:15 PM »
Thanks, arogantbastardale for the info on bacteria. Yes, it probably is an infected brew, but thankfully not too much. I normally just bottle from my Coopers fermentor with their bottling wand. But this time I bottled from a glass carboy and was dissatisfied with how much beer was wasted during transfer.

Have a Canadian Blonde fermenting right now and will definitely bottle from the Coopers fermentor.

benepas

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Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2017, 08:18:47 AM »
Not that it helps you, but vinegary (if that is what it is) is a sure sign of contamination, which could have easily happened from lots of air exposure during your transfer.  Generally, two organisms will do this, and both require oxygen in order to do it: Brettanomyces and Acetobacter.  The chances of catching a wild Brettanomyces from the air are pretty small.  It will convert sugar to acetic acid if it is allowed to ferment in the presence of oxygen.  In this case you would have seen more attenuation (higher carbonation) in the bottles.  Acetobacter, the more likely culprit, is a bacteria, and it's present everyone.  Leave a fermenter bucket uncovered over night, and the vinegar smell you get is from Acetobacter bacteria.  It's what is used to produce vinegar.  Acetobacter converts alcohol into acetic acid, and requires oxygen in order to do so. 

So... there's your useless microbiology explanation for the day, lol!

I had the same problem with my first kit. Some bottles had that pungent vinegar smell just after I opened them. (right in the first week after bottling) but the majority haven't. I thought it was because some of them I forgot to shake and some of sugar remained on the bottle neck and in contact with the foam and oxygen fermented like you said. The beer taste was ok and didn't had any vinegar traces in it.

 

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