+- +-

+-User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 
Forgot your password?

+-Gallery

Shoutbox

M0nk3y says: Happy New Year  ;)
combat32 says: Merry Christmas!!
combat32 says: Happy Thanksgiving
combat32 says: just realized i brewed my 75th batch of homebrew  :D
combat32 says: Happy Halloween
combat32 says: i got stuck in mine once...had to drink my way out 8)
Brew Beerymore says: I was hiding in my kegerator, combat. Sorry about that.
combat32 says: where is everyone??
Jon Turner says: :)
officialbeyn says: 17  ;)

+-Top Posters

combat32
Posts: 3878
vic
Posts: 3645
DamoNinja
Posts: 2865
CorronZenith
Posts: 2764
Greedy Dragon Brewing
Posts: 2496

Author Topic: Vinegary Taste  (Read 1916 times)

Uberstout007

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 33
Vinegary Taste
« on: May 04, 2016, 06:40:47 PM »
Hi, I just wonder if bottling from a secondary fermenter will impart a vinegary taste to beer. You see, there was mucho oxygen unintentionally introduced to the beer as I transferred to the bottles with the gravity pump. Also, I topped off the wort before hand with tap water, and forgot to sanitize the sink nozzle with StarSan. The beer is slightly vinegary, but drinkable. Is there a way to stop the gravity pump after each bottle is filled? This cause much spillage and oxygen to occur. I know it is imperitave to not have oxygen during transfer. :o Any advice would be appreciated.  ;D

Rayner585

  • Hero Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 519
  • Personal Text
    Have No Fear Rayner Juice is Hear
Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2016, 07:06:00 PM »
was it all grain/extract? what beer?  what temp did you ferment at? because too high of a fermenting temp an cause problems like that ie solvent like smell? sure its not like an apple cider taste to it? this can be caused buy to much sugar etc, check this link out on acetaidehyde

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/is-my-beer-ruined/common-off-flavors

hope this helps cheers 17
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 07:08:23 PM by Rayner585 »

combat32

  • Master Brewer
  • Superhero Member

  • Online
  • *****

  • 3878
Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2016, 07:15:30 PM »
do you have a bottling wand?
https://www.morebeer.com/products/bottle-filler-removable-spring-38.html?site_id=9

that would help you out with starting and stopping. you could also make a bottling bucket  very easily.
Keg 1- Cider
Keg 2- HB Pale ale #2
Keg 3- sMasH Mystery Hop
Keg 4- Sour Cherry Gose
Keg 5- Dead Ringer IPA
Keg 6- Sierra Madre Pale ale
Keg 7- HB Mola Porter
FV1-
FV2-
Planning- Jays Whiplash IPA, Lager

DamoNinja

  • Technical brewer
  • Superhero Member

  • Offline
  • *****
  • Assistant to S. cerevisiae

  • 2865
Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2016, 07:38:45 PM »
Is it a very very young stout?
Fermenting:
17 BIPA

Bottle aging:
Oaked sour ale '16
Coffee stout '15
Oaked apple cider '15
Barleywine '14

Keg 1: Golden ale
Keg 2: Not-17 BIPA
Keg 3: Not-17 BIPA
Keg 4: Mongrel //
Keg 5: EMPTY :(

Mini keg 1: Golden ale
Mini keg 2: Empty!
Mini keg 3: Damo's BIPA

Pipeline: ??

arrogantbastardale

  • Master Brewer
  • Hero Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 605
    • My YouTube Channel
Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2016, 10:13:08 PM »
Not that it helps you, but vinegary (if that is what it is) is a sure sign of contamination, which could have easily happened from lots of air exposure during your transfer.  Generally, two organisms will do this, and both require oxygen in order to do it: Brettanomyces and Acetobacter.  The chances of catching a wild Brettanomyces from the air are pretty small.  It will convert sugar to acetic acid if it is allowed to ferment in the presence of oxygen.  In this case you would have seen more attenuation (higher carbonation) in the bottles.  Acetobacter, the more likely culprit, is a bacteria, and it's present everyone.  Leave a fermenter bucket uncovered over night, and the vinegar smell you get is from Acetobacter bacteria.  It's what is used to produce vinegar.  Acetobacter converts alcohol into acetic acid, and requires oxygen in order to do so. 

So... there's your useless microbiology explanation for the day, lol!

DamoNinja

  • Technical brewer
  • Superhero Member

  • Offline
  • *****
  • Assistant to S. cerevisiae

  • 2865
Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2016, 11:35:29 PM »
Acetobacter converts alcohol into acetic acid, and requires oxygen in order to do so. 

So... there's your useless microbiology explanation for the day, lol!

It'll do it without oxygen too, but takes considerably longer and generally needs oxygen to get going.

Made vinegar a few times, takes a while but it's worth it!
Fermenting:
17 BIPA

Bottle aging:
Oaked sour ale '16
Coffee stout '15
Oaked apple cider '15
Barleywine '14

Keg 1: Golden ale
Keg 2: Not-17 BIPA
Keg 3: Not-17 BIPA
Keg 4: Mongrel //
Keg 5: EMPTY :(

Mini keg 1: Golden ale
Mini keg 2: Empty!
Mini keg 3: Damo's BIPA

Pipeline: ??

arrogantbastardale

  • Master Brewer
  • Hero Member

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 605
    • My YouTube Channel
Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2016, 01:40:05 AM »
Acetobacter converts alcohol into acetic acid, and requires oxygen in order to do so. 

So... there's your useless microbiology explanation for the day, lol!

It'll do it without oxygen too, but takes considerably longer and generally needs oxygen to get going.

Made vinegar a few times, takes a while but it's worth it!

Ah, I didn't know that.  Acetobacter is on my list of subjects to study more closely! :)

DamoNinja

  • Technical brewer
  • Superhero Member

  • Offline
  • *****
  • Assistant to S. cerevisiae

  • 2865
Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2016, 08:42:34 AM »
Acetobacter converts alcohol into acetic acid, and requires oxygen in order to do so. 

So... there's your useless microbiology explanation for the day, lol!

It'll do it without oxygen too, but takes considerably longer and generally needs oxygen to get going.

Made vinegar a few times, takes a while but it's worth it!

Ah, I didn't know that.  Acetobacter is on my list of subjects to study more closely! :)

I may very well be wrong and it just takes a long time :P

Apple cider vinegar is a pretty easy way to get good cultures of these guys going but it does take a while. I've still got 2 bottles of vinegar left I'm planning on taking the culture from it and doing a bigger batch.

Although I've never tasted it in a beer so maybe I should introduce some to some finished beer and see what it does... few samples with and without oxygen. Hmm...
Fermenting:
17 BIPA

Bottle aging:
Oaked sour ale '16
Coffee stout '15
Oaked apple cider '15
Barleywine '14

Keg 1: Golden ale
Keg 2: Not-17 BIPA
Keg 3: Not-17 BIPA
Keg 4: Mongrel //
Keg 5: EMPTY :(

Mini keg 1: Golden ale
Mini keg 2: Empty!
Mini keg 3: Damo's BIPA

Pipeline: ??

Uberstout007

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 33
Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2016, 11:53:48 AM »
Thanks Rayner585!

It is a Brewer's Best Cream Ale extract kit, fermented at 24 degrees celsius, I think, maybe higher, thanks to a heating belt.

Uberstout007

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 33
Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2016, 12:08:15 PM »
Thanks, arogantbastardale for the info on bacteria. Yes, it probably is an infected brew, but thankfully not too much. I normally just bottle from my Coopers fermentor with their bottling wand. But this time I bottled from a glass carboy and was dissatisfied with how much beer was wasted during transfer.

Have a Canadian Blonde fermenting right now and will definitely bottle from the Coopers fermentor.

benepas

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 3
Re: Vinegary Taste
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2017, 08:18:47 AM »
Not that it helps you, but vinegary (if that is what it is) is a sure sign of contamination, which could have easily happened from lots of air exposure during your transfer.  Generally, two organisms will do this, and both require oxygen in order to do it: Brettanomyces and Acetobacter.  The chances of catching a wild Brettanomyces from the air are pretty small.  It will convert sugar to acetic acid if it is allowed to ferment in the presence of oxygen.  In this case you would have seen more attenuation (higher carbonation) in the bottles.  Acetobacter, the more likely culprit, is a bacteria, and it's present everyone.  Leave a fermenter bucket uncovered over night, and the vinegar smell you get is from Acetobacter bacteria.  It's what is used to produce vinegar.  Acetobacter converts alcohol into acetic acid, and requires oxygen in order to do so. 

So... there's your useless microbiology explanation for the day, lol!

I had the same problem with my first kit. Some bottles had that pungent vinegar smell just after I opened them. (right in the first week after bottling) but the majority haven't. I thought it was because some of them I forgot to shake and some of sugar remained on the bottle neck and in contact with the foam and oxygen fermented like you said. The beer taste was ok and didn't had any vinegar traces in it.

 

Recent Topics

Does this recipe look good? by combat32
Today at 07:07:34 AM

Grain mill adjustment. by Jaymcmlxx
January 16, 2018, 07:59:39 PM

BB's Ginger Beer by combat32
January 16, 2018, 03:21:15 PM

Sediment in the fermenter after 14 hours by combat32
January 16, 2018, 03:20:08 PM

New to this forum, been around a while though by Hobrr
January 16, 2018, 01:46:48 PM

New Guy to the forum by BuddhaNole
January 16, 2018, 09:11:06 AM

Finally got around to registering here by Brew Beerymore
January 16, 2018, 03:32:29 AM

How Long? by Brew Beerymore
January 16, 2018, 03:00:03 AM

What's everyone brewing?? by Sheltoncds
January 15, 2018, 01:16:59 PM

Muntons Old conkerwood black ale by Hobrr
January 14, 2018, 01:01:35 PM

Sediment in the fermenter after 14hours by Hobrr
January 14, 2018, 05:46:43 AM

What did you just pour? New Thread by combat32
January 12, 2018, 08:44:08 PM

029 Kolsch yeast by Stivius
January 12, 2018, 05:16:51 PM

High vs Low Alpha Bittering Hops by arrogantbastardale
January 12, 2018, 05:02:32 PM

BBQ chips for oak flavoring?? by BuddhaNole
January 10, 2018, 09:25:33 AM

First Time by ryan88dozer
January 09, 2018, 02:41:18 PM

Newbie from Norway by ryan88dozer
January 09, 2018, 02:40:03 PM

Beer Mail Habanero IPA by combat32
January 08, 2018, 01:46:22 PM

It's Miller time!! by Hplovecraft07
January 07, 2018, 08:23:22 PM

Merry Christmas BREWCREWERS by newf84
January 06, 2018, 08:21:58 PM

Introduction to Brewing Water by Playground
January 05, 2018, 10:49:39 AM

Sugars by combat32
January 05, 2018, 08:19:44 AM

2 cans of Coppers Candian blonde . by TASspark
January 04, 2018, 06:13:29 PM

What's up!! by Brew Beerymore
January 04, 2018, 10:20:10 AM

A little bit of a Rant by Hplovecraft07
January 02, 2018, 09:37:55 PM

Happy New year brew day!!! by Hplovecraft07
January 02, 2018, 03:03:08 PM

Sugar priming by Trurobrew
January 01, 2018, 03:51:06 PM

New to 17 by Sheltoncds
December 31, 2017, 01:18:00 PM

New Podcast Milk The Funk "The Podcast" by Black Dog Brewery
December 29, 2017, 04:53:55 PM

Lemon mead and some updates by StickyTentacles
December 29, 2017, 10:45:52 AM

HipHops by combat32
December 26, 2017, 07:30:16 AM

Duclaws chocolate peanut butter porter review by Hplovecraft07
December 25, 2017, 02:13:42 PM

Modelo Negra review by Hplovecraft07
December 23, 2017, 05:24:26 PM

Many thanks to Aussie brew brothers CZ,,,VIC,,,,TAS,,,ANDDDDDDDPHIL by johnnyingeorgia
December 23, 2017, 09:45:34 AM

Devil Bird IPA by vic
December 22, 2017, 09:39:47 PM

post some funny beer photos by Brew Beerymore
December 22, 2017, 01:56:52 PM

New FermeƱter by Dark_Loki
December 20, 2017, 03:12:20 PM

Crushed by combat32
December 19, 2017, 08:50:56 PM

Orange zest by Black Dog Brewery
December 19, 2017, 08:23:13 PM

How do you make your starter? by Black Dog Brewery
December 19, 2017, 07:50:36 PM

Expired coopers canned malt kit by Black Dog Brewery
December 19, 2017, 07:34:48 PM

Greetings from Louisiana USA by Playground
December 17, 2017, 06:31:55 PM

Wheat beer review by Hplovecraft07
December 17, 2017, 06:25:14 PM

Back to some good old American hops! by StickyTentacles
December 17, 2017, 05:24:36 PM

Anyone Tasted GEORDIE MILD ? by Hobrr
December 16, 2017, 12:48:00 PM

Learn to Brew Beer The Easy Way by benepas
December 16, 2017, 10:37:16 AM

Welcome by combat32
December 16, 2017, 08:39:58 AM

Vinegary Taste by benepas
December 16, 2017, 08:18:47 AM

Perlick 650SS faucet by Kronos
December 15, 2017, 11:51:47 AM

What was and still is your favorite music? by Jaymcmlxx
December 15, 2017, 05:37:39 AM

My "Use Everything" Brew by Jaymcmlxx
December 15, 2017, 05:34:17 AM

newbie - small batches by T-Boy
December 14, 2017, 07:32:39 PM

so when you graduated high school by johnnyingeorgia
December 12, 2017, 09:11:30 PM

BEER/DRINKING SONGS...enjoy. by johnnyingeorgia
December 12, 2017, 08:47:59 PM

Just trying to do a hopped cider by johnnyingeorgia
December 12, 2017, 08:25:52 PM

Powered by EzPortal